On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Status Cruo » May 31st, 2011, 19:41

My father and my oldest brother were jailed, tortured and murdered by the stasi, and my 6yo sister died a horrible asphyxiation death because these pieces of shit deliberately denied my mother the required medicine which she would have been perfectly able to buy with her own cash anywhere else in the world, and all that while they drove their limos around and partied in their mansions bought with money stolen from honest, hardworking people like my family.

This has already gone beyond offtopic, so I'm just going to leave it at that before it gets really nasty. Enjoy your marxist depravity.

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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Panoptic Blur » Aug 13th, 2011, 08:10

Bayoneta was an odd game.

You got to play as an ass-kicking female witchcraft type spellcaster, which seemed fairly empowering.

But then during certain spells, she was naked except for her eyeglasses. And during other combat moves she was very clearly arching and contorting into weird positions, whose only likely aesthetic value would be fanservice for male gamers. (Or possibly lesbian female players, I suppose.)

So bottom line, was this a game that presented positive portrayals of women, as powerful protagonists who could improve the world around them and defeat enemies through force and guile? Or was it just a further subversion of women as a plaything for the straight male libido and the lesbian pink canoe - a mere cultural ornament, pleasing to the eye but devoid of substance or merit?

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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Cmon » Aug 13th, 2011, 23:41

If I had the choice of playing as a woman or a man, I would play as the female character. I feel as though women are more complex and bring better emotions out of the player. Think about Blood in reverse, Ophelia seeking revenge for her betrayed lover. Although it's the same story, it has a completely different feel to it. What if the male character was actually the "damsel in distress"? Just something to think about.

Sexism is fueled by women. They set themselves up. If they really wanted to diminish sexism [not all of them do apparently] they could do it. Instead, they push up their breast and where degrading clothes while demanding respect when they don't even respect themselves. You're not worth anything if you're not worth EVERYTHING to yourself. I hate how most of them just sit and hope that men will diminish sexism for them. I praise that woman in the video BoN posted because she's actually making a stand. If you are a women who actually fights for equality, I respect you.

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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Shadowman » Aug 14th, 2011, 02:20

Cmon wrote:Sexism is fueled by women. They set themselves up. If they really wanted to diminish sexism [not all of them do apparently] they could do it. Instead, they push up their breast and where degrading clothes while demanding respect when they don't even respect themselves. You're not worth anything if you're not worth EVERYTHING to yourself. I hate how most of them just sit and hope that men will diminish sexism for them. I praise that woman in the video BoN posted because she's actually making a stand. If you are a women who actually fights for equality, I respect you.
Wh-

you know what

nevermind.

*hobbles back to Bin*
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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Daedalus » Aug 14th, 2011, 04:02

Cmon wrote:Sexism is fueled by women. They set themselves up. If they really wanted to diminish sexism [not all of them do apparently] they could do it. Instead, they push up their breast and where degrading clothes while demanding respect when they don't even respect themselves. You're not worth anything if you're not worth EVERYTHING to yourself. I hate how most of them just sit and hope that men will diminish sexism for them. I praise that woman in the video BoN posted because she's actually making a stand. If you are a women who actually fights for equality, I respect you.
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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Cmon » Aug 14th, 2011, 05:59

The problem only exist if you let it.

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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Blood of Nightmares » Aug 14th, 2011, 06:35

Cmon wrote:If I had the choice of playing as a woman or a man, I would play as the female character. I feel as though women are more complex and bring better emotions out of the player. Think about Blood in reverse, Ophelia seeking revenge for her betrayed lover. Although it's the same story, it has a completely different feel to it. What if the male character was actually the "damsel in distress"? Just something to think about.
Well I was thinking of a similar idea of a Blood "reboot" game that starred a female protagonist but a different one since in the Alpha version of Blood, Ophelia was originally named "Rachel" which I thought about reintroducing her as a separate character (or maybe changing her name to something more badass like "Aden" or something) from Ophelia and making her as the main protagonist instead of Caleb (which she can be like a female equivalent to Caleb since she's also a outlaw/gunslinger from the old west and who also but overtime became a sadistic cold blooded merciless killing machine much like Caleb although she's less romantic (I doubt Caleb was either but maybe he had a crush on Ophelia because she offered him immortality via the Cabal or something) and more like a sexually promiscuous women maybe because she is barren/infertile,...yep there were female gunslingers back in the day BTW) while Ophelia, Caleb, Gaberial, Ismael can still exist but they get casted down and Rachel is the one doing the revenge against the Cabal/Tchernobog of course with Caleb being casted down to the fourth and strongest of Tchernobog's lieutenant's lair to be "sacrificed" than a hollow grave which Rachel ends up there instead would complete the elemental theme that the bosses represent which for example.

Cheogh = Air

Shial = Water

Cerberus = Fire

The Fourth Lieutenant = Earth

As for Ophelia, I think she never was a "Damsel in Distress" and she was casted down just like the others. Although in Blood 2 they made it so.
Cmon wrote:Sexism is fueled by women. They set themselves up. If they really wanted to diminish sexism [not all of them do apparently] they could do it. Instead, they push up their breast and where degrading clothes while demanding respect when they don't even respect themselves. You're not worth anything if you're not worth EVERYTHING to yourself. I hate how most of them just sit and hope that men will diminish sexism for them. I praise that woman in the video BoN posted because she's actually making a stand. If you are a women who actually fights for equality, I respect you.
I am also sick of the common cliche of women appearing impracticable during combat situations in video games (high heels especially, skimpy outfits, midriffs, etc) just for male players to jack off to as if they designed these female characters as a blatant joke that tell us a hidden sexist message saying "there is no womenz in combatz lolz". Of course the most bullshit excuse I keep hearing everytime I bring this they say "you want realism that has Dragons, Demons, etc, it's a fantasy setting and it's supposed to be unrealistic!" which I call that bullshit just because it's a different setting doesn't mean women have to look impracticable in combat situations while their Male counterparts looks practicable.

Well to tell you the truth I'm actually a male.

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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Panoptic Blur » Aug 14th, 2011, 17:18

Cmon wrote:Sexism is fueled by women. They set themselves up [...] they push up their breast and where degrading clothes while demanding respect when they don't even respect themselves.
I'm given to understand that the issue is more complex than that.

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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Daedalus » Aug 14th, 2011, 17:31

Poor Matt's parameters in the original post have been disregarded... again.
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Blood + Focus = Love · Faith is the key · Heretics and traitors cannot stand before us · Some games are self-perpetuating - Blood requires conscientious communal effort to survive · We are the last line · Ask not for whom the main menu animates · Blood's promotion and survival - all other gaming considerations are secondary · More than just a game · Need a hint? · Make a stand

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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Panoptic Blur » Aug 14th, 2011, 17:42

...to be fair, your instructions in the first post were situated immediately after a couple of paragraphs expounding persuasively on that very subject.

I got confused. :/
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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Daedalus » Aug 14th, 2011, 17:47

All is forgiven.
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Blood + Focus = Love · Faith is the key · Heretics and traitors cannot stand before us · Some games are self-perpetuating - Blood requires conscientious communal effort to survive · We are the last line · Ask not for whom the main menu animates · Blood's promotion and survival - all other gaming considerations are secondary · More than just a game · Need a hint? · Make a stand

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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Panoptic Blur » Aug 14th, 2011, 19:31

That having been said, I agree with the other gamers who like their characters to be wearing believable costumes, appropriate to the situation they're in. I'm a big fan of immersiveness and believability, and I'll credit a game where they take pains to sustain that. It's not an easy task, but when you get it right, the game is very rewarding to play.

Ophelia in Blood is a great example. She's not supposed to be a swimsuit model or a pampered princess. She's a gunslinger and an experienced killer. Blood2, for all its faults, did good work on her character design. It would have been tempting to make her just eye candy, but you look at Ophelia as she's portrayed in-game and it's clear she could open up a can of hurt on anybody in her way. Even in Blood1, where she fulfilled a largely passive function in the plot, they didn't play up her gender.

The Tomb Raider franchise looks like it might be taking a few steps towards making Lara Croft more of a realistic character design. I saw this cover of her new face and thought "Holy crap, she means business..." I haven't played any Tomb Raider game to date, but I'll at least be following this one to see if it's plausible enough to be immersive.

Image

I guess a good rule of thumb is I like games that can suspend my disbelief. This is not necessarily a game that's realistic. After all, Blood features many supernatural enemies and fantasy elements. But its fictitious elements are presented in a way that is at least plausible. If a game doesn't have realism, it can still hold my interest if it at least has verisimilitude to it.

An inappropriately-dressed female character is usually one element among many that fails the verisimilitude test, and which will break my suspension of disbelief.


Also I have no problem pretending to be a female human in a game, which for me is roughly the same conceptual stretch as pretending to be a male human in a game. It's all the same to us machines.
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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Cmon » Aug 14th, 2011, 20:37

Daedalus wrote:Poor Matt's parameters in the original post have been disregarded... again.
Don't pretend like you didn't know this would happen. You placed a great weight on thin blade of grass. It was bound to happen. On the other hand, I think that it's a very important discussion to be had.

I believe that female characters should be more than just horny hype. Something that I love about Ophelia is that she was always appropriately dressed. I never thought of her as a sex appeal.

I love the new Lara Croft model, she's beautiful but not sexy or trashy. I think she's a respectful image of a woman.

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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Cmon » Aug 14th, 2011, 20:47

Panoptic Blur wrote:
I'm given to understand that the issue is more complex than that.

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Rape is not fuel by women. It's fueled by disgusting fantasies of horrible people. I think rape is way beyond sexism. It's a whole new problem on its own.

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Re: On Assuming The Role of the Female In Video Games

Post by Cmon » Aug 14th, 2011, 20:54

Blood of Nightmares wrote:Well I was thinking of a similar idea of a Blood "reboot" game that starred a female protagonist but a different one since in the Alpha version of Blood, Ophelia was originally named "Rachel" which I thought about reintroducing her as a separate character (or maybe changing her name to something more badass like "Aden" or something) from Ophelia and making her as the main protagonist instead of Caleb (which she can be like a female equivalent to Caleb since she's also a outlaw/gunslinger from the old west and who also but overtime became a sadistic cold blooded merciless killing machine much like Caleb although she's less romantic (I doubt Caleb was either but maybe he had a crush on Ophelia because she offered him immortality via the Cabal or something) and more like a sexually promiscuous women maybe because she is barren/infertile,...yep there were female gunslingers back in the day BTW) while Ophelia, Caleb, Gaberial, Ismael can still exist but they get casted down and Rachel is the one doing the revenge against the Cabal/Tchernobog of course with Caleb being casted down to the fourth and strongest of Tchernobog's lieutenant's lair to be "sacrificed" than a hollow grave which Rachel ends up there instead would complete the elemental theme that the bosses represent which for example.

Cheogh = Air

Shial = Water

Cerberus = Fire

The Fourth Lieutenant = Earth

As for Ophelia, I think she never was a "Damsel in Distress" and she was casted down just like the others. Although in Blood 2 they made it so.
I think you should create a new thread on this idea. I'm willing to discuss. :wink:

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