Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

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Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Daedalus » Jan 13th, 2011, 17:41

Greetings, Posty.

Recent events both on the board and in my life have put my mind on thoughts of eternity, preservation and posterity. It is with this in mind that I'd like to present this thread and make a genuine inquiry so as to collect a variety of impressions and ideas, so I ask that we please be serious (but not too serious) while taking this into consideration.

Any idea, motivation or artifact which can be appreciated through human understanding requires a willing human participant. Even the most incredible plans and thoughts can be laid to rest if there is no continuation of a population eager to carry them. All ideas and products are finite as long as there is no perpetuation of individuals willing to carry on the flame from those before.

I have now spent a great deal of privileged years amongst the Blood online fanbase. I have borne witness to the triumphs of the collective community and its downfalls, and it has been my honour to have known many of the fine and talented individuals who comprise its ranks. I have seen the collective disperse and many who called themselves friend turn to treacherous and addled paths. I watched seemingly intelligent individuals change in an instant and go down treasonous roads I could never follow. All those moments have brought us to this crossroads, a moment in time where the few remaining of us must carry the cause on behalf of the many and although I've no doubt in my heart that Posty's approaching proper reincarnation will usher in a golden age of opportunity, and I will be glad to revel in that time of growth and prosperity, I can't shake the feeling that in the long term we may have a slight problem with death.

I have come here to ask for impressions and insight on a particular angle of thinking, Posty. Who better to raise the question to than our loyal collective itself? In particular I've been thinking that, put simply, The Postmortem will require an infusion of both females and youth in order for our plan and this edifice to survive. When the reaper's toll must be paid in full by all those here, I would like to think that Blood appreciation and celebration can continue on, and that we will have made an impact in eternity for it.

On matters of this kind I am simply a foolish old man who is set in his ways, so I come forward to all of you for insight and ideas. Dreaming Entity though I may be, if all belief in Blood is to die, I will surely vanish from this dimension. My sensibilities are so far removed from the youth of today and the females of just about any age that I am of no use in this question.

Is Blood put at risk by its very own mighty nature? Is it too alien in its essence to appeal to the female demographic at all? Is it too old to appeal to the insolent youth of today? I understand that the same concerns can be raised about most anything, but this site's about Blood and though I may come off as a little paranoid here, I usually play for keeps.

How then can we endeavour to gain a larger female and youth demographic here? We will require the infusion of these energies to continue this mission, and I am very grateful for the scarce quantities of these we do possess, but I'm concerned that we may all turn old and grey and take these things into consideration when it is too late.

What is it about certain Internet boards and topics that attracts women and youngsters and can we in some way harness that element to benefit Posty?

Tell me your thoughts.
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Blood + Focus = Love · Faith is the key · Heretics and traitors cannot stand before us · Some games are self-perpetuating - Blood requires conscientious communal effort to survive · We are the last line · Ask not for whom the main menu animates · Blood's promotion and survival - all other gaming considerations are secondary · More than just a game · Need a hint? · Make a stand

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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Panoptic Blur » Jan 13th, 2011, 18:34

Daedalus wrote:What is it about certain Internet boards and topics that attracts women and youngsters and can we in some way harness that element to benefit Posty?
I cannot comment on the boards issue. However, I have a few ideas about content (which is even more important than boards, as the boards are just a platform for discussing mods, games, and actual substance).

A variety of games are out there which are moddable. I would suggest modding the types of games that appeal more to female gamers and young'uns.

This may well be mutually exclusive.

A top contender for the female demographic, which could still be in keeping with the Blood theme, would be the "first person sneak" type of games. Thief 1 and Thief 2 both were eminently moddable, and the closely-related "first person survival" game System Shock 2 is very moddable too. Thief has Lytha, a top female player, and SS2 has Christine, a prolific female modder (self-confessed as somebody whose husband wishes she would "just watch soaps like any other housewife"). Both of these games could be modded to something closer to Blood's style of dark rural Gothic horror. All of these games are typically slow-paced, tactical thinker games - it's also worth noting that a huge fraction of the Thief design team was female. (Either a third or half, I forget which.) These games did feature violence, but much less of it than usual, and often rewarded creative thinking and thoroughness of exploration.

Less specialized but much more moddable are the Source games, starting with Half-Life 1. Quake also has the stillborn Transfusion project. Potentially, Clive Barker's Undying (which uses the Unreal engine) could also serve as a good vehicle for Blood-style action game. These games are all faster paced than Blood normally is, and may appeal more to the "run and gun" younger crowd.


As far as Postmortem goes, we need more activity supported by the base site, rather than the board itself being a focus of socializing. We actually need a base site, first off. And then we need stuff to go on it to anchor the boards. Competitions. Map projects. Conversions and mods. Walkthroughs (and wikis?) with data about the games. Errata and easter eggs. Fun stuff. Screenshot madness.

The best way to get people playing a game this old (and finicky to get running) is to show them how much fun they're missing out. It needs to be visual-superficial enough to attract the passing visitor, but also in-depth enough to help them find minutiae like hit points and damage ratings, etc. Host (or link to) Youtube vids of weirdass runthroughs. Encourage theme runthroughs or maps - maybe somebody could map up the hotel shootout from No Country For Old Men, or the actual hotel from The Shining etc.


Those are my suggestions. Also, if somebody could flip me over and examine the unit ID on my base, that will tell you what plugs and ports I'm compatible with. That way when it comes time to start reproducing, you'll get more VK-test machines instead of just me.
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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Daedolon » Jan 13th, 2011, 19:34

Panoptic Blur wrote:Competitions. Map projects. Conversions and mods. Walkthroughs (and wikis?) with data about the games. Errata and easter eggs. Fun stuff. Screenshot madness.
Spoiler: show
Aww shit I don't want to spoil anything.
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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Daedalus » Jan 13th, 2011, 23:03

An excellent analysis, Priest of t Panoptic Blur. I knew I could count on you for some insight. What you're saying mostly coincides with The Posty's return plans, though. I'll certainly keep the ideas you've presented in mind. Thank you.

Jarmo, I expected something smarter.
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Blood + Focus = Love · Faith is the key · Heretics and traitors cannot stand before us · Some games are self-perpetuating - Blood requires conscientious communal effort to survive · We are the last line · Ask not for whom the main menu animates · Blood's promotion and survival - all other gaming considerations are secondary · More than just a game · Need a hint? · Make a stand

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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Blood of Nightmares » Jan 13th, 2011, 23:36

Panoptic Blur wrote:or the actual hotel from The Shining etc.
I think someone already did a the Shining map for Duke Nukem 3D (see this thread) although Caleb is too big to fit in the map however because Duke Nukem is actually a midget but it's such a shame that ilikemyhandsbloody ran away because Blood is a silver disk with a pretty picture on it before we can see that example....

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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Daedolon » Jan 14th, 2011, 04:51

Daedalus wrote:Jarmo, I expected something smarter.
Do you want me to list everything we're planning or?
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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by kurt » Jan 14th, 2011, 07:22

This is an interesting and thought provoking thread, and I hope others will also use it to provide their own thoughts on how they'd like to see this site successfully evolve. While first reading it though, my severely sleep deprived mind envisioned a catastrophe had occurred that destroyed the entire world, and that this was actually a plea to continue the human species by seeking out women and children. Perhaps I shouldn't have watched the movie The Road, recently. But in any case, optimism is always important in establishing growth and prosperity in my opinion. Planning the future with the help of member's ideas and participation is an excellent way in creating a strong and healthy community. It's good for everyone to know that suggestions and opinions are always welcome here.

In my opinion, if people are made to feel appreciated and valued for their contributions, then they'll participate and return. Lessons can also be learned from previous failures such as the Transfusion forum, where spambots now post more then the members, and often demonstrate more intelligence then some of the apathetic individuals that remain. However recruiting new members is a dilemma that I have no ideal answers to, despite having given the matter some thought in the past.

Personally I believe that entertaining and informative material needs to constantly be provided to encourage individuals to join any community, and to also continue returning to it. Give people information and entertainment that they might enjoy on a continual basis and they will always return. Unfortunately Blood isn't moddable like DOOM so there aren't hundreds of different mods to discuss. This is a Blood community, and I'd prefer not to wander too far away from that with things like Source and Thief mods. Turning the site into a modding forum for other games could make one lose sight of the original purpose of this website. I think it may have something to do with that old game called Blood if I recall. However new Blood maps are still being created which is a good thing, and any new effort should be featured more prominently on this site to get people interested. Older Blood maps could also be revived and reviewed in the same way that the freeminded site does. This site should be the ultimate Blood site on the internet with every conceivable bit of information and news relating to Blood. Promotion also plays a part in bringing in visitors. Blood 2, as bad as it was, actually had the potential of creating growth, and for a time I did my best to try to prove that it was indeed possible. Over a 100,000 views on the Transfusion forum and over 30,000 views each on the Postmortem and moddb, demonstrates that even a mod for this retarded Blood offspring can still attract a lot of people to the Blood community.

However some Blood fans can demonstrate an interesting contradiction, by being both passionate about Blood and apathetic at the same time. So getting lurkers to actually participate is somewhat of a challenge, but I applaud the desire of this forum to overhaul itself. Although the speed of which it occurs can be frustrating, if I can speak candidly. My feelings on the donate button also aren't a secret either, as I still remain opposed to it. In my opinion the presence of this button is actually detrimental in promoting growth as it does not in fact encourage any new members to join at all. I believe that this request for money actually has a negative effect, as lurkers may feel that there could be ulterior motives for the existence of this forum, and they will simply not join. The donation request also makes the site appear desperate and needy where as I feel the forum should give the appearance of strength and stability instead, in order to attract new members. People come across requests for money all the time on the internet and they're almost always ignored. So if the donate button doesn't actually generate revenue and if it also gives off a bad vibe to visitors, then it really has no purpose here and it should be eliminated. If the existence of this site is ever in serious financial jeopardy then I can always be spoken to privately.

An examination of some of the more successful sites on the internet could also provide ideas for encouraging greater participation. A new generation of Blood fans is arriving that weren't even born when the game originally came out, and as shocking as that is, they'll be the ones to carry the torch when we all end up in retirement homes. So with that in mind, catering to what this younger generation are interested in is actually a good idea. Typically though there aren't a lot of females that are into violent games especially if the games are over a decade old. But other areas of the site could exist that might potentially attract more females. Art and humor are always areas that can be used in a variety of different ways to attract people. Everyone can appreciate art work especially if its something good, and if someone has a bad joke then its better then nothing. Literature is another area that could potentially attract people, not only in discussing books, but guys and gals could write their own fictional short stories and an entire new area of possibilities would then open up to attract others to join the forum. Games, competitions and prizes are all good ideas for encouraging participation. Someone could dig up Vincent Price and prop him in a chair, and I'm sure that would provoke some discussion from visitors. Personally I'd like to see more horror, humor, and entertainment, as well as a variety of different interesting topics being discussed. I could also say that the site needs more cowbell because kids these days seem to like hearing that sort of thing...

The future is up to each of us, and the only limits are the ones we impose on ourselves. So everyone speak your mind and have your own say on what the future will be.

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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Daedalus » Jan 17th, 2011, 09:35

Daedolon wrote:Do you want me to list everything we're planning or?
I was referring more to the question of women and the youth than top secret future Posty plans.

Kurt - thanks for your thoughts. Obviously Panoptic's talk of modding was a possibility in a brighter Posty future. It's a shame. I expected some more thought and collaboration on this, but I guess the secret to luring these "markets" will remain a mystery for now. I hope it's the tricky nature of this rather than apathy which has frightened others into remaining silent.
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Blood + Focus = Love · Faith is the key · Heretics and traitors cannot stand before us · Some games are self-perpetuating - Blood requires conscientious communal effort to survive · We are the last line · Ask not for whom the main menu animates · Blood's promotion and survival - all other gaming considerations are secondary · More than just a game · Need a hint? · Make a stand

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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Umnir » Jan 17th, 2011, 16:59

+ Women don't generally like violent games
+ Women prefer easy to learn, colorful, funny and social games
+ People prefer the products of their age, as we do
+ Blood looks grey and dull
+ Personal preference
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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Daedolon » Jan 17th, 2011, 22:31

Umnir wrote:+ Women don't generally like violent games
+ Women don't generally like games

I fixed that for you. Sadly this is true and I keep hearing horror stories about women leaving the relationship because a guy plays a video game instead of watching a movie.
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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by kurt » Jan 18th, 2011, 23:24

I once had a woman complain that I spent "too much time building models and shooting crazy people".

The "people" were actually cultists in B2R, and this intelligent woman thought I was "sick" for killing them all. I think she was mainly upset that the screaming from the cultists kept bothering her while she was trying to read.

It seems that most women don't like violence or death as entertainment though. Artistic efforts such as drawings, paintings, or literature might attract women, if they don't care for violence and death. But that leads me to wonder what kind of computer games goth chicks might play...

I suppose that I really have no ideal answers on how to get women and teenagers to post here.
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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Blood of Nightmares » Jan 18th, 2011, 23:34

Well Ella and Hellen are the only two females who actually post here which shows that some women like violence but it appears not most of them.

Most of this can be explained what their social conditioned to be eversince child birth.

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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Daedalus » Jan 18th, 2011, 23:36

Oh boy.
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Blood + Focus = Love · Faith is the key · Heretics and traitors cannot stand before us · Some games are self-perpetuating - Blood requires conscientious communal effort to survive · We are the last line · Ask not for whom the main menu animates · Blood's promotion and survival - all other gaming considerations are secondary · More than just a game · Need a hint? · Make a stand

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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Panoptic Blur » Jan 19th, 2011, 00:56

Daedolon wrote: + Women don't generally like games
As a generalization, it's becoming less and less true as time goes by.

Game studios are waking up to the fact that women are a potentially huge untapped demographic of gamers, but they are less likely to play a shooter game or fighting game just to blow off steam. Women seem about equal with men as far as puzzle games and abstract games go. They could be potentially a far larger market for games featuring social interaction and role-playing, like WoW or the Sims.

But yes, as far as Blood goes, the things that make it attractive to a large number of male players (low-investment violence, relatively straightforward progression, high-adrenaline action) are probably less persuasive to female players.

Even so, tastes are rapidly changing. My table top RPG group is majority-female, minority-male. Our Rock Band gaming group fluctuates from 2 to 3 females and 3 to 5 males. One of my friends is a very "girly" female but she likes to take turns playing the single player campaign missions in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare. (She doesn't like playing it alone or multi.)

I think a horror style game with tactical depth (like System Shock 2) or puzzle elements (like Call of Cthulhu) could do well among female gamers. Thief 2 had a massively successful fan mod made for it called The Iron Age which featured the protagonist playing as a woman - I'd suspect that Blood's rural-Gothic plot could already be more interesting to female gamers than most FPSes, not least because it incorporates a fair bit of understated character background and leaves open the possibility of character development.

In fact, I'd hoped to see some actual character interaction promised to us before the release of Blood 2. In the end, however, the development was rushed to market and we never really got much characterization beyond a few lines of dialogue.
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Re: Morphology, Longevity, Incept Dates

Post by Shadowman » Jan 20th, 2011, 13:22

A wiki is downright necessary now.

We need something structured and well-written for assemble our collective knowledge together.
I'm not touching the current Blood wiki though. It'd take longer to clean up than it would to start fresh.

With all this TF Wiki shit, I'm kind of used to it by now.
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