Greetings to the Blood Community

Discussion of and directed to Jace Hall's Blood vision.
dosgamer000
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by dosgamer000 » Aug 13th, 2012, 06:42

I have never used Steam, but I don't really want to sign up (if you even have to sign up) just to get a source port or updated version of Blood.

@Hendricks266

I quickly went through your two posts about open source and cheating and I (If I am not missing something) agree. Cheating is probably inevitable, so there is no point in drastically changing something just to keep them out (meaning removing/modifying something that is negative to Blood or as a whole.) Again, forgive me if I am missing something or ill-informed as I haven't read up on everything about Blood, source codes, multiplayer, etc.
Last edited by Hendricks266 on Aug 13th, 2012, 07:41, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed my numbers: 266, not 226

Baron_Samedi
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by Baron_Samedi » Aug 13th, 2012, 14:48

Dungeon Defender's code was semi-released, it's pay to play, has a lot of hacks and mods going on even though it's supposed to be really secure without that. It's not the first time someone dares to do so in Steam.

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smoketetsu
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by smoketetsu » Aug 14th, 2012, 05:52

Here's something that people seem to fail to alway realize whenever it comes to improvements like high res packs and things like that. If you don't like them no one forces you to use them. Improvements are entirely optional. As for me I like the Duke3D HRP and Polymer although I realize it'd be tons of work to get Blood up to that level and who know if Jace Hall is up for that amount of work.

Restricting any improvements whatsoever because it's not to your tastes is rather selfish. What if other people want them? Choice doesn't hurt anyone. Probably the best thing to do if this was seriously a thing that is going to happen is a source engine port in the style of ports like eduke32 and darkplaces with everything optional that way people can tailor their experience to what they want. Then if he (or they) are not up to making a high res pack let the community handle that.

But I do kind of think many people are getting ahead of themselves asking for features when we don't even know if anything is going to come of this. I'm feeling a little skeptical at this point. Also I kind of doubt he'd do all this all by himself I think he'd need a small team especially if he wanted to do a Blood Polymer equivalent. eDuke32 isn't a one man project either after all.

Cmon
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by Cmon » Aug 14th, 2012, 08:26

smoketetsu wrote:Restricting any improvements whatsoever because it's not to your tastes is rather selfish. What if other people want them?
I'm not sure why you brought this up. No one is restricting anything. Before you can add enhancements you need the ORIGINAL game working properly. That is the first priority. I thought everyone understood that?
smoketetsu wrote:Choice doesn't hurt anyone.
Interesting...

Alex2501
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by Alex2501 » Aug 16th, 2012, 07:58

smoketetsu wrote:Here's something that people seem to fail to alway realize whenever it comes to improvements like high res packs and things like that. If you don't like them no one forces you to use them. Improvements are entirely optional. As for me I like the Duke3D HRP and Polymer although I realize it'd be tons of work to get Blood up to that level and who know if Jace Hall is up for that amount of work.
Exactly. It's not like Blood is being George Lucas'd and you can't play it exactly as you remember it. So long as these improvements are optional that should be enough.

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Status Cruo
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by Status Cruo » Aug 16th, 2012, 21:40

Cmon wrote:Before you can add enhancements you need the ORIGINAL game working properly. That is the first priority. I thought everyone understood that?
I can't possibly agree more. Get the basics right AND preserve them throughout any further development.

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xBRYAN2000x
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by xBRYAN2000x » Aug 18th, 2012, 06:07

Ooooh Coooool! a Re-Release of Blood

Anyways

My Name is Bryan and heres i want in the re-release of Blood

-Bloodbath and Coop Bot Support (Like in the Betas earlier than v0.99)
-Easy Map Editor
-Add it to Steam

I Think thats it :D

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Callum Sanderson
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by Callum Sanderson » Aug 18th, 2012, 22:27

I was thinking more of restoring the game to be played on modern computers... a ZDoom approach where the game has a click & play sourceport. I thought all the bug fixing, open gl enhancements, multilayer stuff would came later, and not a main focus right now.
Image

Alex2501
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by Alex2501 » Aug 21st, 2012, 07:16

I think Gamescom finished. Anymore updates?

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uhrwerk
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by uhrwerk » Aug 28th, 2012, 21:25

It saddens me a bit to see how people underestimate the importance of a source code release. I can understand that people are ok with a closed source port since it would definitely improve the current situation. The problem is, however, that especially in regard to compatibility and future proofness a closed source port only solves problems temporarily, as several forum users already pointed out. It is very likely that we will face current compatibility issues several years after release of the port again, forcing us again into hacks and workarounds since nobody has access to the code to sort things out. Granted, a source code release does not guarantee anything, but it at least allows everyone to pick it up and port it if they feel like it, something that is not possible currently and wouldn't be possible in the future if Jace decided to take the closed source route.

To Jace:
I know, you've made clear that open sourcing Blood is not your primary concern and that you would rather leave that for others to do. The problem is however that projects like the Blood Source Code Release Campaign as well as other attempts made by individuals to get the source code released into the wild have shown that it is extremely difficult for outsiders like us to to be heard and to get in contact with persons in charge to discuss issues like this. This is where I think that you, as a former developer of Blood, have an advantage. The fact that you will (probably?) get the official permission to create the port you envision shows that. I guess that getting such a permission would have been completely out of reach for any of the regular Blood fans.

Sure, releasing the source code bears the risk of dozens of forks popping up in the end, like what happened to DOOM. The question is, however, if that's really a problem or whether there's more of an opportunity in there. Giving people the freedom to improve Blood according to their own visions might produce something completely unthought of. After all, the ZDaemon port that you referred to in IRC also spawned from the publicly available source code of DOOM. :)

Additonally, a source code release does not impede your vision of an improved Blood. You could release the unmodified source code for the original DOS Blood into the wild while keeping your port closed source. You could also partially open source your port by just keeping a few security related components like anti-cheat modules etc. closed source. Anyone wishing to play on official multiplayer servers or wishing to be listed in the achievements database would be forced to use the official binaries provided by you while still allowing people to pick up your port to improve it (and maybe send these changes upstream to have them merged into the official codebase) or to port it to other platforms. The second approach is probably preferable and is basically what id Software does since Quake 3: All of their source code releases have the Punkbuster component (cheat detection library) stripped.

All in all I personally hope that you will revisit your objections to a source code release. It's one of the best things that could happen to Blood.

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DustFalcon85
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by DustFalcon85 » Sep 5th, 2012, 07:01

Still waiting for Jace to give us updates
Language bearers, Photographers, Diary makers. You with your memory are dead, frozen.
Lost in a present that never stops passing.
Here lives the incantation of matter. A language forever.

Like a flame burning away the darkness. Life is flesh on bone convulsing above the ground.

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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by Tekedon » Sep 5th, 2012, 12:58

Maybe he changed his mind :P

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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by RazTK » Sep 5th, 2012, 22:09

Still waiting for a source release. :?

JaceHall
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by JaceHall » Sep 6th, 2012, 00:20

I'm in the process of trying to figure this out with Atari. We will see how it goes.

Jace

Cmon
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Post by Cmon » Sep 6th, 2012, 02:44

Good luck, I hope everything works out. :wink:

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