Greetings to the Blood Community

Discussion of and directed to Jace Hall's Blood vision.
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Blood of Nightmares
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby Blood of Nightmares » Aug 5th, 2012, 07:01

Dimebog has told me recently via IRC that Jace Hall doesn't exactly have the source code in his possession at this moment and I think Jace Hall may have already talked to Atari. I think before people go "Please the release the source" I think you need to wait for a while before that happens since there's apparently several procedures that needs to be taken before getting to the final eventual result.

I guess it's best to let Jace Hall do his thing since this might be the only hope our community has and probably the only way out of the woods, let's not screw this up or our only chance might be lost for good.
Last edited by Blood of Nightmares on Aug 5th, 2012, 10:50, edited 1 time in total.

thejackal
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby thejackal » Aug 5th, 2012, 08:01

This is excellent news! Most of what I want has been addressed already (mouselook, properly synced cutscenes) or mentioned (I have no problem if they use the original voxels but also don't care if the visuals are upgraded a little). I do think the music and voices as well as sounds need to stay the same. Clean them up, perhaps, but definitely keep them as close to original as possible.

My question is, who owns the rights to the expansions? I had issues running those back when they came out (much like the ones for Duke Nukem 3D). If you don't own the rights to those, will there be a way to install them off our original disks and allow them to work through the new Blood?

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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby Hendricks266 » Aug 5th, 2012, 08:11

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prayanavita
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby prayanavita » Aug 5th, 2012, 10:08

Just wanted to say I fully support this idea and I think this can be hugely successful. The vision you have in mind seems great and changing as little as possible to maintain the atmosphere as much as possible. I see no problem with additional resolutions or even additional graphical settings as long as they are all optional.

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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby JaceHall » Aug 5th, 2012, 11:50

Hey all...

Just need to make a couple things clear to avoid confusion:

Of course I have the source code for Blood in my possesion - however, that is not the issue. The issue is whether or not it could ever be released to the public, and I want to make it clear that it is not my decision. AND PLEASE UNDERSTAND that the companies that can make that decision are not inclined to ever do so in my opinion.

My inquiry here on this forum is not oriented toward trying to lobby companies for a Blood public source code release. I will leave that campaign and effort to others and wish them the best of luck with that.

My inquiry, interest and potential goals in regard to Blood and the community are only as stated previously - which are goals that I know I have a reasonable chance of accomplishing if I make the decision to put the time, effort and money into it all and get the help and support of the community.

I have no desire to negatively affect Blood in any way, so rest assured that if I get the sense that the community doesn't want me to get involved with this again I will decide not to move forward and just move on to other things. So please know that I'm not trying to force anything. I just thought it would be great to bring the original Blood game back PROPERLY so that we all could play it again! I would start there, and then just see what happens. The project would hopefully grow organically from that point.

I hope that made sense.

Jace

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Blood of Nightmares
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby Blood of Nightmares » Aug 5th, 2012, 12:34

Last edited by Blood of Nightmares on Aug 5th, 2012, 12:46, edited 3 times in total.

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Ella
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby Ella » Aug 5th, 2012, 13:48

Jace

The amount of support and feedback received here is probably overwhelming, more so than what you originally anticipated. Heck even i'm shocked! However i duly hope that none of it will discourage you as a lot of what has been suggested and encouraged may have probably cluttered your vision and goals to some degree.

I can speak for the entire community here perhaps in saying that, just the idea of creating a source port that affects Blood's stability of functioning perfectly on modern day platforms/machines without changing anything superficial is absolutely what we'd love. The idea of playing Blood without the need of Dosbox anymore to me is a pretty incredible thing, because i haven't been able to run Blood properly for several years now and it's always been down to the fact that Dosbox isn't stable for everyone, especially not for me.

The fact that you're here trying to bring life back into Blood is amazing as is, and you can rest assured that your decisions and work will have the entire communities support. Ultimately we all desire you to accomplish your vision and undoubtedly we all want to help you in doing so.

Do what you want to do and we'll be here every step of the way.

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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby Le Babe » Aug 5th, 2012, 14:01

Are you going to code everything by yourself Jace or do you need some help ?

Basically, apart from throwing out ideas, what do you expect from the community ? We have some people here that are capable of wonders when it comes to Blood.

How is that project going to be organised in the end ?
"I'm here to donate some blood...someone else's..." - Caleb
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Blood of Nightmares
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby Blood of Nightmares » Aug 5th, 2012, 14:28

I have several suggestions:

-- Addon support for addons like Bloody Pulp Fiction, Deathwish , etc.

-- ZDoom/Eduke32 stlye modding support.

-- Software and Open GL options (like lighting effects and such).

-- Midi options (like choosing between soundblaster and General Midi)

-- Of course maybe somehow playing the CD music without the CD somehow (or maybe making the CD music recognizable in the source port).
Last edited by Blood of Nightmares on Aug 5th, 2012, 15:22, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby smoketetsu » Aug 5th, 2012, 15:04

Let me just say that I fully support the idea of a Blood source port for modern operating systems and furthermore I would support one that has features like Doomsday, the JF ports or eDuke32. In these ports all the additional features are entirely optional.

We've had arm-chair game preservationists impede the making of game ports with OpenGL rendering, etc. before but I hope no one discourages this happening. There'll still be DOSBox for those who want an entirely pure Blood experience and again it's trivial to make any additional features be entirely optional.

Let's say that someone made a high res pack even. No one forces anyone to download and use a high res pack if they don't want to use it.. and others using a high res pack doesn't invalidate the game in any way. It's just a nice option for those who want to use it.

About being against open sourcing Blood, to quote Darth Vader "Your lack of faith is disturbing". One not need look further than the existing source ports like the ones I mentioned above to see that open sourcing a game can work out for the best.

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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby Status Cruo » Aug 5th, 2012, 15:08

A video game personality of your caliber posting in common portal's territory, now that's just beyond awesome 8)

What I envision for Blood is a source port that can be configured to look, sound, play and basically behave (for perfect, original demo playback) exactly like the last DOS executable did. Any enhancements and fixes would be more than welcome, but they'd have to be entirely optional. I'm kind of a Blood purist, and I still need to play Blood in software mode at 320x200 on my good ole' 21inch-powered CRT.

A short list of what I'd love to see in a modern Blood source port, in no particular order:

. Native WinXP support.

. Retain the software mode (some people are nearest-neighbor filtering textures in hardware mode these days) but it looks a mess, introduces sprite clipping and other graphical abnormalities. Again, everything would have to optinally be 1:1 pixel perfect when compared to the original graphics.

. Every option from the original DOS executable.

. Optional bug fixes.

. Bloody footsteps ala Duke Nukem (surprisingly missing in Blood!)

. Proper fullscreen, vsync capabilities (you'd be surprised how much this is being neglected in modern source ports for other games)

. Support for any display mode (equaling to internal resolution) listed by the video driver.

. Support for any color bit depth. 8, 16 (banded, like the old voodoo patch) and 32.

. Uncapped framerate. The original Blood exe could only do 60fps, meaning that, unless the chosen display mode worked at 60hz, you'd experience ghosting and even some nasty juddering.

. A separate image upscaling option for people with flatpanels so they can upscale those beautiful 320x200 pixels to something like 1600x1000 (or 1600x1200 for perfect aspect ratio correction) while retaining the retro look.

. Hardware-accelerated mode with texture filtering. Trilinear, anisotropic, anti-aliasing, all welcome.

. Proper, old-fashioned alpha blending 3dfx-style for sprites and see-through textures. I can't emphasize this enough. These days you look at the way said elements are being handled and boy, what a disaster. Everything looks like bad cardboard cutouts. The softness in the edges, that ability to blend with the background for a natural-looking picture are completely gone, and not many seem to care, probably because they don't know (or don't remember) how stuff's supposed to look and how much of the overall quality is negatively affected.

. High-quality sound upsampling. This too is very important. Most sound cards these days can't output at Blood's original (or most used) sample rate, which I believe was 11khz. Without proper resampling, the aliasing becomes unbearable. So throw in potent sinc filter and I'm a happy man.

. Please don't make shaders a necessary feature for Blood to run at full speed. Myself, just like many other people, keep our systems retro enough so that we can dual-boot with DOS/Win9x in order to play Blood the way it was meant to played, so our hardware may be relatively underpowered (e.g. my GF6200)

. Some of Shadow Warrior's map trickery that's still missing in Blood.

. Strong TCP/IP multiplayer capabilities. Can't think of a greater pleasure than to bloodbath again!

. OPL emulation. The original OPL music in Blood is about as good as it's CD counterpart. Absolutely a work of art that can't be overlooked.

. Anaglyph support.

. Filtered mouse movement.

. High-res texture support for mappers.

. Radiosity support for textures, JDoom style.

. Colored lighting (would be nice, but I'm not crazy about it). Again, please don't force it to be shader-based.

. A nice launcher.

. No limits for map complexity.

. Voxels in hardware mode.

. Random sound pitch.

. Hud translucency.

. A Blood special in the Jace Hall show (just kidding, but it would be great 8) )

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smoketetsu
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby smoketetsu » Aug 5th, 2012, 15:14

Speaking for myself I would totally be behind a full Blood source port. Furthermore I'd be behind one that is similar to the JF Build ports or even eDuke32. The thing about any additional features in these ports is they are all entirely optional. If one doesn't want to use the additional features they don't have to. So having them wouldn't degrade Blood and may actually boost its popularity. Those who want a "pure" blood experience and can't even stomach any options being available could stick to DOSBox if they wish.

As for me I play source ports specifically for the stuff they bring to the table and I'd rather play Blood via a good source port even one such as JF's ports that don't have as many additional features that eDuke32 has but a Blood polymer version would be awesome especially with a high res pack.. which.. if one doesn't want to use no one would put a gun to their head and force them to use it. But even just a Blood polymost version would be welcome at this point.

People being against any additional features including OpenGL rendering have impeded ports coming out in the past by being a stick in the mud and it'd be unfortunate if the same thing happened here. Stagnation is not a good thing I say. Right now I've been playing Blood via DOSBox with GLIDE and it's not the most stable thing in the world. I'd replace it with a good source port in a heartbeat.... then rip out that heart and use it as a weapon. :D :twisted:

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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby Reactor » Aug 5th, 2012, 16:01

Two things are amazing to me- all this talk of reviving Blood, and the fact there's still a Blood community (any old timers might recognise my name).

"I just thought it would be great to bring the original Blood game back PROPERLY so that we all could play it again! I would start there, and then just see what happens. The project would hopefully grow organically from that point."

This sounds great to me. I can play Blood now, but I'd love to see it cleaned up a little and playable on multi without a whole lot of hassle. Bring it on I say.

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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby Dimebog » Aug 5th, 2012, 17:36


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psEudozardoZz
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Re: Greetings to the Blood Community

Postby psEudozardoZz » Aug 5th, 2012, 17:47

Greetings to Jace and the rest of the Postmortem community. I was absolutely floored when seeing your first post here Mr. Hall. If the source code could be liberated at long last, Blood would finally rise to its proper station amongst all the ego shooters of the 90's. I was completely satisfied to sit back and watch this thread as the growing throngs of fans lined up to make their appreciation felt when I came upon something that grabbed my attention in your last post.

Jace said:
***************************************
I have no desire to negatively affect Blood in any way,

**so rest assured that if I get the sense that the community doesn't want me to get involved with this again I will decide not to move forward and just move on to other things.**

So please know that I'm not trying to force anything. I just thought it would be great to bring the original Blood game back PROPERLY so that we all could play it again! I would start there, and then just see what happens. The project would hopefully grow organically from that point.
***************************************
You also said that you hoped everything was perfectly clear. I can only speak for myself but I'm not sure that it is clear. Are you saying that the community hasn't shown the desire for your involvement? If so we are doing something terribly wrong. You are Blood's last, best hope. I can't imagine someone not wanting the source code for Blood. If we're lacking in some way please express your impressions of us so we might fix whatever's wrong.

your Fan
zZaRDoZz


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