Dead Reckoning(WinBlood).

Discussion about editing and mapping for Blood.
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icecoldduke
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Dead Reckoning(WinBlood).

Post by icecoldduke » Jun 2nd, 2009, 20:55

As many of you know awhile ago I was working on a port of WinBlood using Build. And to alot of people's dismay I stopped working on that, I was getting frusterated at alot of builds limitations, and to be honest I didn't think it fit well with my portfolio.

Well I have been working on a port of Blood on the idTech3 engine. Here are the features of what we have so far.

Game Features:
Sprites for ALL Monsters/Weapons/Items.
E1m1 Populated with zombies/cult guys.
Monsters catch unfire when hit by with the staff weapon.
3 weapons pitchfork, shotgun, staff weapon.
AI uses AAS(Quake 3's path finding system).
UI Screens for when the player dies AND for when the player beats the level.
Singleplayer AND Multiplayer Cooperative support up to 5 players.
InGame Joining for multiplayer games.
Some E1m1 scripting events.

Engine Modifcations:
Per-pixel lighting/Bump Mapping.
LUA Scripting.
Re-Written Sound system using FMod(support for sound shaders/3d sound).
Hi Res Music support(ogg).
Better sprite support for monsters/weapons/etc...
Reactivated Quake 3's ttf font rendering system.
Unified UI system(instead of the UI being split up into cgame/ui, UI is built into the engine, and called in cgame via traps). There is NO ui code in cgame.
Lua scriting.

KNOWN BUGS:
Hit boxes are messed up aim towards the waist of the monsters.

Here is the SinglePlayer/MULTIPLAYER COOPERATIVE test build.

To start a server you must use the devmap command DO NOT USE /MAP!. Singleplayer and Multiplayer cooperative are in this build.
To START a server access the console using the ~ key, type /devmap game/e1m1.
To Connect to a server press ~ as well, than type /connect IPADDRESS.

https://sourceforge.net/project/downloa ... a=46866171

Screenshot:
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Youtube Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBnHPDQ596w
Last edited by icecoldduke on Jun 2nd, 2009, 21:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Shadowman
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Post by Shadowman » Jun 2nd, 2009, 21:23

Link doesn't work.
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Post by icecoldduke » Jun 2nd, 2009, 21:29


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Post by Shadowman » Jun 2nd, 2009, 22:36

Alright, I'll test it out and tell you what I think.
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Post by Shadowman » Jun 2nd, 2009, 22:52

So I attempted the first level.
This project has a long way to go. The sounds are obnoxious, and the animations are completely borked. Parts of the map were completely nonexistant, and other parts had incorrect textures. One of the most annoying parts of the game is that the enemies are moving all over the place and I can't land a shot on them at all. They seem to spawn out of nowhere, and that can pose a problem in a game like BLOOD. Half the fun is trying to find ways to avoid detection when you can't spare anymore health. The animation in the beginning of the executable is nice, but far from seamless. This also goes for the animation after death. The gibs are great, but they don't have to appear after every enemy you kill.

The effects are nice, and the lighting is superb. Also, the room with the boiler was empty, and when I exited a cultist shot me in the back.
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Post by icecoldduke » Jun 2nd, 2009, 23:00

Finally I got a critical response : ). Im tired of all my friends telling me they liked what I have, I guess you can't expect a critical response from a bunch of Marines : ).

The animations arent correct, but what do you mean by the 'sounds of obnoxious".

Did you try the cooperative play?

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Post by Shadowman » Jun 2nd, 2009, 23:02

I'm glad you took it lightly. I support this project, but I want to make sure you get it right. :p

Anyways, when you use the life leech on an enemy, it always makes the same sound. After a while, it becomes extremely annoying. It's even worse when several enemies are ignited at the same time.
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Post by icecoldduke » Jun 2nd, 2009, 23:09

Shadowman wrote:I'm glad you took it lightly. I support this project, but I want to make sure you get it right. :p

Anyways, when you use the life leech on an enemy, it always makes the same sound. After a while, it becomes extremely annoying. It's even worse when several enemies are ignited at the same time.
I want to get this right : ), its actually rather annoying when I ask people "what could I improve on", and they say "nothing it just feels incomplete". Also I am annoucning this project rather earlly because I want to try and get more people to help us out with it : ).

But the main thing I wanted to get tested was the cooperative code.

My goals with this project are to create a game that feels/works EXACTLLY like the original game, but have it work on a updated more stable code base. Which is why im using sprites for everything instead of models. I hated the way transfusion some of the Hl2 mods tried to remake 3d models. I also don't like the team doing the eduke32 version because that codebase is far from stable, and lacks networking which my version comes "out of the box" with.

Do you know of a good sound list I could use as a reference? Its actually rather annoying to have to go through a bunch of raw's with no logical orgainzation method :|.

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Post by Dimebog » Jun 2nd, 2009, 23:25

icecoldduke wrote:My goals with this project are to create a game that feels/works EXACTLLY like the original game,
You might want to start with getting the player movement, speed, jumping and inertia to feel right first, instead of adding coloured dynamic lights which don't belong in this game in the first place and only detract from the feel rather than adding to it.
icecoldduke wrote:but have it workI also don't like the team doing the eduke32 version because that codebase is far from stable, and lacks networking which my version comes "out of the box" with.
eDuke32 codebase is far from stable? Wonder what gave you that impression. It is a perfectly stable, perfectly portable, lightweight platform that has a legacy of fans and developers who will continue supporting it and upgrading it to make it compatible with new OS versions and such, which can't be said for the Quake3 engine, unless you plan to support your project on your own once it is finished. Other than that, eDuke32 is naturally more compatible with Blood on the basis of Blood being a Build engine game, and eDuke32 being a Build engine... The two games have countless similarities in the ways they operate. Idtech3 doesn't come close. Does not even have sector shading which is critical to Blood's level design.
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Post by icecoldduke » Jun 2nd, 2009, 23:46

Why are you thinking that just because Blood was based on build that it wont feel the same on a engine based upon Quake 3? The physics and movement are GAME specfic, not BUILD specfic. And if you use polymost to sends geometry to the graphics card like ANY opengl game. Quake 3/idTech3 is more of a optmized renderer than Polymost is.

As far as "sector based shading" that can easily be implemented in a idTech3 engine, because the map->map converter im using converts sectors as well. The next update will include proper physics code, and if I get around to it "sector based on shading" similar to polymost. Remember polymost renders using OpenGL, Quake 3 uses OpenGL the same effects can be achieved in both engines, the bottom line is which one is more stable and by far Quake 3 is the most stable, and extensible.

But the networking code for EDuke32 is antiquated and doesnt come to par with idTech3, and as far as portability idTech3 works nativelly on Linux and Mac which I will also provide support for. idTech3 has better modding capabilities than eduke32 has(con coding is legacy and outdated by far). And as far as being "cross platform" Quake 3's vm code is a compile once work on multiple platform approach. And my engine comes with Lua scripting which is a more up-to-date scriptin approach.

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Post by Dimebog » Jun 2nd, 2009, 23:53

I really didn't say any of that, I just said that a Build-based engine seems like a more obvious choice. And I raised my voice against the claim that it is not a stable codebase.

It doesn't lack support for modern eyecandy either, if people are into that (as of Polymer). I agree that the networking aspect falls behind at the moment, but that is bound to change at some point. Q3 engine is going to be abandoned sooner than eDuke32 is, once it gets replaced by more relevant technologies. I am sure you are aware of that.
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Post by SwissCM » Jun 2nd, 2009, 23:53

It sucks. The whole concept sucks.

Blood needs to stay on build. Transfusion proved that a port to another engine simply doesn't have the same feel as the original and by not being compatible with existing usermaps it makes the effort even more pointless. By using eduke32 it's not like you're lacking features that Blood needs, though it is missing Rooms over Rooms in software mode (Polymer supports it though). The engine itself is plenty stable and the only thing that is heavily in development is Polymer and that is improving every day. I also don't know where you got the idea that it lacks networking since the current network code works very well. I played a DM game with Terminx with a ~300 ping (I live in Australia) and it was very playable.

All of these different Blood projects that have the same core goal (reverse engineering blood to run on modern systems) are a waste, since inevitably only one is going to pull through in the end. You all have to get your damn act together and work as a group towards that goal and stop this fragmenting of the community that is only going to slow things down or kill the whole idea altogether.

For the record I think c2g is taking the best route.

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Post by icecoldduke » Jun 3rd, 2009, 00:09

There networking code lacks in game joining and for starters is a major turn off :).

Usermaps I can see being a problem, but I allready have a automatic system setup to convert build maps to q3 maps. Even though the entities need to be replaced its not the most daunting task in the world to do :).

Transfusion's flaw was the fact they made poorlly made models, they didnt know how to extend the Quake 1 engine to properlly support the same feel that blood had, and Quake C wasnt the best language to build ANY game on in the first place.

I on the other hand am using sprites to achieve the same type of "art" feeling that blood had. I dont think the eduke32 version would be abonded. But its not hard to simply replace graphics, and piggy back off the duke nukem source code base., which is why im not impressed by it : ).

I know ill be able to come up to the challange where Transfusion failed I know I will succeed because I am argueablly a better developer than any of the guys on there. Very little impresses me and I want to be able to impress everyone in the blood community but my project will NOT be like transfusion.

What im trying to say is a game doesnt matter what ENGINE its based on, its how the gameplay USES the engine and the technology to create a good game or a bad game.

I understand the build type feel, and I want to do that, and I need specfics on what needs to be done to acheive that : ).

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Post by Dimebog » Jun 3rd, 2009, 00:19

icecoldduke wrote:But its not hard to simply replace graphics, and piggy back off the duke nukem source code base., which is why im not impressed by it : ).
I think you got something confused, Jose.

We removed all Duke graphics and all Duke-related code, and are writing all the code from absolute scratch. We also do not seek to "impress" people technically or look at this as an opportunity to enhance our portfolios. We just want to get the project done, for obvious reasons.
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Post by Le Babe » Jun 3rd, 2009, 00:21

Good luck with this then. BLood related project are numerous nowadays :shock: .
"I'm here to donate some blood...someone else's..." - Caleb
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