Reviews of the Sin campaign and download it here.

Discussion about Blood and its addons.
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Hellen
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Reviews of the Sin campaign and download it here.

Post by Hellen » Aug 10th, 2005, 01:44

Should I open another thread? Yeah, I guess, I should.
Before starting this short level-by-level review I want to thank my beloved Mr. Ðeathmask for making this possible. He proved that he is the last Blood level designer survived on the planet, and as I witnessed, he produces stuff which doesn’t fall into a category ‘standard usermade shit’.
You said, ÐÐ, that you can be a bastard when it comes to criticizing something, so, I guess, now it’s time for me to be a bitch :twisted:

The Plot Sickens.
Since the very beginning of the level(game) I understood that I’m playing Blood. Pure Blood, baby! From the first sight there’s no a single sector with zero meaning in it. Everything has its own place: every sprite, every texture, every enemy. Alright, I’m coming out of the building and… whoa! Everybody has seen a plane bombing civilians out of the window in E3M2, but to see it SO close! And a plane dropping cultists. You’re really good at coding events, the thing I’ll never understand. This ‘events’ thing still remains a mysterious miracle to me.
The city street. It was a surprise that I could enter every door of every building. Not if there were that much buildings, but no fake doors and faceless buildings makes it really pleasant. I was impressed by a … bookshop doorbell. Yeah, by how it rings when not only you, but enemies pass through the door. I only wish that you’ve done the gun shoppe more, let’s say, detailed. And this shooting range, you know, I want a prize after I hit the target!
A little ‘storage’ mission. A really clever enemies placement: no one disturbs no one, but everybody disturb me! This box-jump almost killed me, let’s say, it was easier to jump on a street lamp than on these damn boxes.
It was kinda strange to discover this ‘headquarters’ thing. I firstly thought it’s a train station and stuff… But, whatever, it’s alright as well.
The next street looked kind out of the place. A plane dropping gargoyles was okay, but a lonely crowd of zombies standing in the corner… what’s that for? I don’t get it. Messed up ending.

Hall of the Dreaming God.
It has a lot from E1’s temples theme. Well, all these halls and passages didn’t impress me. Thing I liked the most in this level was an outside cemetery(‘Graverobbers!’). This place was so cute and nice, not like the rest of the level. ÐÐ, do you really live in such a dump? :) (Just kidding…) This level is huge and monstrous. This, how to say, church, was fine. But the underwater labyrinth… It’s unnecessary. It contains too much fish in it. To kill the fish costs more ammo than you can pick in the corners. I totally disliked it.
Though the maze with the priest was a real trial. Well, it has more meaning in it showing that Old Tchernie has another challenge for our anti-hero…
Meeting Tchernobog in a final fight was fun as well. All these… walls… I can’t imagine how much time you’ve spent on ‘em.
But funniest of all was the stone gargoyles fight on the strange moving… symbols(?). A real pain in ass even if the symbols (?) won’t move.
In the whole, this level has less possible logic in it.
Well, again, I’m afraid, this place is a dump, and I don’t feel like living there as the Goddess.

Sky Rage.
It feels like several levels were skipped and I magically moved from the Dreaming God’s apartment into the… sky. But the first feeling was: Whoo-hoo! I can fly! Then comes understanding of a fact that me not made for flying, me made for jumping. Yeah, but seriously, the feeling of flight is so REAL! All planes seemed like freely flying in the sky, while the wind added the feeling of velocity and height.
The first two little planes were so cute! I wish I could control them though this isn’t another cheesy plane-simulator :)
And then I entered the first big ship. My first intention was… to call Mr. Ðeathmask a copycat for literal copying Bloodlines’ plane. You see, even this caged dog in the cargo bay ;) But, I won’t call you so, Mr. Ðeathmask, because you not copied it, you upgraded it. And upgraded A LOT! Once again, this ‘flying plane’ stuff was a way much realistic. Awesome work!
But… the last vessel spoiled the whole party… Cabal Airship, isn’t it? It’s very huge. So huge that they even have a (obviously unnecessary) Tchernobog’s statue in the hall. Such interior doesn’t look like the one of the airship. Two big rooms are tooo big! No tiny cute details – bad.
By the way, I’m not intended to fight two beastie pilots, it’s easier, in ammo and health saving purposes, just to skip ‘em to the ending switch.

Chateau Darkfrost.
Sounds like a wine label… Let me taste it.
This plane crushing looked very naturally. This upside-down plane can be compared only to the drown submarine from Duke’s 1st episode.
We landed on the water? Why not. There’re stairs in the rocks? Why not. But after seeing this maze I wanted to call Mr. Ðeathmask copycat for a second time. And for a second time I won’t do so. This spiral (or rose) shaped maze was kinda harder to ‘solve’. Very clever.
I solved the maze, I opened a door and… I couldn’t believe my eyes. I was literally stunned by the opened scene! No words. It’s beautiful. It’s superb. It made me believe there’s snow in the air. I’m still impressed by this snowy mansion… It’s perfect from every side. I love the main entrance, the little graveyard, the terrace with a bottle of wine on a table(like it stands here since summer). I love how you’ve done some parts of the ground clear from snow – very natural.
I entered the mansion, and I was no lesser impressed. Sound of the steps and then a door closing right before me. It really scared me, I believe that there ‘was’ someone! I walked into the hallway and heard these child’s cries. And then… BAM! A crowd of ‘crudux cruo’s spoiling the whole atmosphere. I don’t say, it is bad, but… fighting a pack of cultists isn’t what I expected to find in these hallways. Bedrooms in the right wing were just fine. Especially this one with Freddy. Kitchen, dining hall, library – I liked the interior. Of course, I’ve discovered every corner of the mansion but… one point: there’re rooms with no necessity to enter them.
*predictable clock secret* ;)
Well, I also noticed one thing(or maybe it’s just my imagination): when I first saw the mansion there was a fog filter simulating the snowy weather. But when I picked up the first key and looked outside again there seemed to be a…. starting blizzard.! (Once again, maybe this is my mind playing tricks on me).
The central (and final) hall once again spoiled all. It’s like I entered another dimension. I thought there’ll be another floor or anything else since very much space left unused inside the mansion. But almost empty hall with columns? Boring, even I’d have to fight two bosses here.

Conclusion: You’re definitely doing the professional work. Keep it up! But you need me, i.e. Hellen, to correct you at the right moment. I told ya, I’m fond of sitting beside and giving advice ;)

It was a pleasure to play your campaign.

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oBe
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Post by oBe » Aug 10th, 2005, 03:45

Yeah, I really couldn't understand how he put the wind in Sky Rage
Weather in the build engine?

What's next, real physics?
Last edited by oBe on Aug 10th, 2005, 20:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dopefish » Aug 10th, 2005, 04:16

And where can Dopefish get this again? :shock:

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Post by Hellen » Aug 10th, 2005, 10:55

oBe wrote:Yeah, I really couldn't understand how he put the wind in Sky Rage
Wheater in the build engine?

What's next, real physics?
I believe it’s a conveyer/waterstream effect but it literally blows you away form the wing like the strongest wind.

Mr. Dopefish, this campaign is freely distributed by the Dreaming God himself. I guess you should ask ÐÐ and he’d give you a chance to taste it.

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Post by NAto » Aug 10th, 2005, 11:28

'Chateau' means 'castle' by the way.

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Post by oBe » Aug 10th, 2005, 20:15

Say DD, I played McCoop, so I thought a little mini-review might be in order.

The beginning and ending were, kinda as expected, the worst part. That hallway you start in was rather ugly and unnecessairy. While I was exploring the Island I just accidently stumbled on that sunken ship. Too bad you put such nice details far from your predestined path.

Also, I think you pulled off a nice horizon. Those things tend to look kinda ugly in build, but because of the shading near the end of the sector, one would barely notice. The silhouttes of the ships were cool.

What I couldn't figure out was how it's possible to start on an isle the size of a small footballfield were you can go around the whole coastline, then go down a mine and come up in a forest with a castle in it, located just beside a city?

Well I thought that was funny. Except a few of those unlogically placed locations, I had quite a good time with it. Difficulty and size was just about right.

I'm just having a hard time deciding if I should update my sinc.ini or not. There are style-similarities but also a quality-breach with the sin campaign.

Anyway, thank you and Daedolon for sending it.
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Post by Daedalus » Aug 10th, 2005, 21:13

Dopefish, you got Bloodlines, man? It's needed for the final mission, you know.

Alright, Hellen, definitely the cruelest review of it I've read. Even crueler than strict ol' Gila's one was. Cruel is good, though. It's interesting how you and oBe appreciated different parts; you loved the mansion exterior while oBe thought it was nothing special etc. You can't please them all. :D

I see you're difficult to please. Which is good. Many of the problems you pointed out (useless rooms etc.) were just old bugs in my system I had to iron out. Simple results of levels being too long and being released one at a time.

I'm glad you appreciated the mystery of my wind effects. It's no secret. You were close to thinking that it's a conveyor belt type thing, Hellen. It's similar, except the floor doesn't move. Sky Rage, as previously stated was just a foolish experiment, as most of this campaign was. Sky Rage severely limited my imagination due to the basic structure of the level. The wind effects were one of the few things that exceeded my expectations, even though it isn't an exact science. Your shells, as well as enemy Blood will 'fly away'. An awesome effect, though you won't see it again in RATM. (Or will you? :wink: )

I'm sorry my 'paratrooper gargoyles' didn't please you. The thought of gargoyles, with helmets on, jumping out of a plane seemed kind of cute to my mind.

I'm sorry that my home was a 'dump'. Neither oBe or you commented much on my 'model' of the Cabal's plans. The boys over at Transfusion were quite impressed by it.

You're hard to please, Hellen, but I'm glad my levels provided some entertainment. Most of the problems you pointed out will be fixed in RATM, so there's nothing to worry about. Thanks a lot for the review, my love.


Hm... maybe I should add oBe's review here...
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Blood + Focus = Love · Faith is the key · Heretics and traitors cannot stand before us · Some games are self-perpetuating - Blood requires conscientious communal effort to survive · We are the last line · Ask not for whom the main menu animates · Blood's promotion and survival - all other gaming considerations are secondary · More than just a game · Need a hint? · Make a stand

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Post by Hellen » Aug 10th, 2005, 22:40

Cruel? Ahhh, crap! I knew that… And I’ve even beaten Gila? Well, well, girl, looks like you’ve gone too far this time.
That was not my purpose to make it sound cruel, you see. I guess I should explain my point of view now. When I’m asked to criticize something I tell directly what I liked, what I didn’t and why I liked/disliked it. I don’t praise it by saying just “Cool!”, and don’t put it down by saying just “Sux!”. It may seem that I consider myself Miss Know-it-all, but it’s not true. I’m just too lazy to add “IMHO” after each sentence :)
Well, I also don’t follow “If you see shit – say “shit” philosophy, neither I cover my true thoughts with sugary words.
Strange… I don’t consider my review that cruel. I loved the most of your campaign, and if there’re any complaints, they’re not this awful that the Dreaming God couldn’t fix ‘em ;) There’re tons of things I liked and only few I disliked. Still, and let it not sound like a cheap compliment, Sin is the best stuff I’ve played since CP. It didn’t provide “some” entertainment, you’re wrong here, it provided lots of entertainment and pleasure!

Ummm… sorry, I just didn’t get the idea with these gargoyles; gargoyles… from the plane… alright. I didn’t think of them as the ‘paratroopers’.
And… what Cabal’s plans? I’m sorry, I didn’t notice it, or I’m just too dumb to notice it.

I don’t see any other maps in my mailbox… Me sad now…
:cry:

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Post by Daedalus » Aug 10th, 2005, 23:04

No, it wasn't that bad, Hellen, it's all good. It's just that yours was the cruelest, but no one has been extremely cruel. So yours was 'lightly broiled'. :D
That was not my purpose to make it sound cruel, you see. I guess I should explain my point of view now. When I’m asked to criticize something I tell directly what I liked, what I didn’t and why I liked/disliked it. I don’t praise it by saying just “Cool!”, and don’t put it down by saying just “Sux!”. It may seem that I consider myself Miss Know-it-all, but it’s not true. I’m just too lazy to add “IMHO” after each sentence
Well, I also don’t follow “If you see shit – say “shit” philosophy, neither I cover my true thoughts with sugary words.
Way to go! Gila and I are both opposite ends of the spectrum. He'll say exactly what he thinks while I'll sugar coat it and run in circles, unless I'm in a bad mood. :twisted:
Sin is the best stuff I’ve played since CP.
All this Mask needs to hear. <3
I don’t see any other maps in my mailbox… Me sad now…
Maps take longer to make than lovely art, Hellen. :wink: But you'll get a good dose in the far future. The faaarrr future.

The paratrooper gargoyles came from the second plane sequence, in case you didn't notice. Guess you missed the plans. Pity. Skipping passages? Lazy! :D
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Blood + Focus = Love · Faith is the key · Heretics and traitors cannot stand before us · Some games are self-perpetuating - Blood requires conscientious communal effort to survive · We are the last line · Ask not for whom the main menu animates · Blood's promotion and survival - all other gaming considerations are secondary · More than just a game · Need a hint? · Make a stand

Hellen
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Post by Hellen » Aug 11th, 2005, 11:08

Damn! Cabal plans! I knew I forget something. Hellen bad…
I’m not lazy, I’m just scared. I walked into this passage, looked with one eye into this room, saw many cultists, got scared and decided to return there next time with more ammunition. And in the heat of the battle forgot it… Sorry, my Dreaming God, Hellen bad!
This “Attack here --> X” plan is as cute and tasty as a wedding cake! I’m impressed :D
How could I miss it? I always liked such miniature copies(like toys in the Mall of Dead). Shame on me!

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Post by Guest » Aug 11th, 2005, 14:51

Erm, DD, did I understand this correctly: You have to run Sin with Bloodlines installed?

(Not done playing Bloodlines yet, but Sin is definately next, so I'm asking what I should install it over.)

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Post by Gandhi[ofDOOM] » Aug 11th, 2005, 14:54

Sorry, forgot to login. That was me.

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Post by Daedalus » Aug 11th, 2005, 23:45

Gandhi, Sin consists of four levels. The fourth and ONLY the fourth one must be played with Bloodlines installed. Sorry for the inconvenience. :oops:
Kazashi wrote:Daedalus, I don't care how much you know about Blood, your attitude has to change.
Blood + Focus = Love · Faith is the key · Heretics and traitors cannot stand before us · Some games are self-perpetuating - Blood requires conscientious communal effort to survive · We are the last line · Ask not for whom the main menu animates · Blood's promotion and survival - all other gaming considerations are secondary · More than just a game · Need a hint? · Make a stand

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Post by Gandhi[ofDOOM] » Aug 12th, 2005, 00:09

So the first three CANNOT be played with Bloodlines and the last HAS TO be? That is a bit inconvenient. But heck, no biggy, guess I'll just install more Blood.

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Post by Hellen » Aug 12th, 2005, 00:32

Why? There’s no reason why three first levels won’t run under Bloodlines. Of course if you wish to play with Bloodlines’ silly vampires instead of zombies… But in other areas it doesn’t make any sense.

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