Zblood Plus?

Discussion about editing and mapping for Blood.
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Alex2501
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Zblood Plus?

Post by Alex2501 » Jul 26th, 2011, 19:21

I think everyone here knows about Zblood, a Doom TC with Blood sprites which wasn't very good. However I came across this guy's yt vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nuhz-paxmg

And I was really blown away because it looks, plays, sounds, and overall feels like Blood. In the description the dude said that someone or a group or whoever is working on a Blood Plus similar to his which will be more advanced. I googled Blood Plus and could only find a forum post from back in 2010 basically asking for people to get involved.

Does anyone have any info on this Blood Plus? A homepage, status report, a LP, anything. It looks like fun, and yeah Blood Xl is coming out soon but another Blood tribute can't hurt. The Gore the Merrier right?

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luciusDXL
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Re: Zblood Plus?

Post by luciusDXL » Jul 27th, 2011, 03:56

While that did look pretty cool, the project you linked a video for has been canceled. In fact, while it mentions ZBlood plus it is something else: "I took ZBlood and changed alot of the s**t I didn't like and tried to make it more like Blood, I stopped working on it because somebody else is working on "better" one called ZBlood plus heh."

As for zBlood Plus, as far as I can tell its no longer being worked on.

This is a small rant, sorry. Most of these projects fail because the authors grossly underestimate the task before them.
To put it simply, remaking Blood (or any game for that matter) in another engine is not easy, especially if the engine is drastically different (like Build and zDoom are). There are basically two approaches:

* Original Input (Game Data) -> Convert and Edit (Data for new engine) -> Output
* Original Input (Game Data) -> Emulation -> Output

The first way is essentially a remake in a different engine with a well established look and feel (i.e. rendering style, physics system, etc.). In this case the original data is a starting point that must be converted, edited and tweaked to fit within the new engine. Things like levels must be re-made or drastically modified in order to fit within the different engine architecture and/or limitations. This can be done very well and sometimes the results are spectacular (Black Mesa Source looks very promising if it ever gets released). However it is a tremendous amount of art and coding work and takes a careful eye for not only the aesthetics of the game but also the feel, atmosphere and gameplay. In addition these kinds of remakes can never replace the original, no matter how close everything gets, because it cannot properly interact with existing user mods and rarely emulates the original gameplay fully. Depending on the goals this is fine, take Black Mesa for example.

The second way is essentially emulation or a "remake in the spirit of a port." The goal is to emulate the original game, with the original data as exactly as possible (with the exception of bugs - such as crashes, OS issues, etc.). It is then possible to add on optional enhancements, like you would probably want to do if you suddenly had the source (i.e. like a source port). This also requires a lot of coding work, more so then the first option actually, but fortunately no artwork since everything comes from the original game. This type of "remake" is all about preserving the original game - look, feel, atmosphere, sound and gameplay - rather then re-interpreting or re-envisioning it.

Either way is a lot of work. For a small team (or a team of 1) the latter approach is the only practical one in my opinion. It's the preferred approach for me and describes BloodXL (and DarkXL, DaggerXL, etc.). The reason is that I want to preserve and optionally enhance Blood, not change or re-interpret it. I have a lot of experience with this already and I can tell you, it's the little things that are often the most difficult to get right. And if one little animation or motion isn't quite right that's not necessarily a big deal. But together the little things add up and can quickly degrade the experience. These types of projects should only be approached if you have the commitment to deal with hundreds of little things that all add up to the final whole. :)

Anyway enough ranting for one day... :oops:

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Blood of Nightmares
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Re: Zblood Plus?

Post by Blood of Nightmares » Jul 27th, 2011, 05:43

Blood can never translate well into the Doom engine and all those ZBlood attempts are good examples of that.

Also here's a video of a sample comparison...


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Le Babe
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Re: Zblood Plus?

Post by Le Babe » Jul 27th, 2011, 10:18

The Blood effect is pretty cool actually, but other than that...there's something weird that makes it look like different from Blood. The sprites seems a bit stretched or something and the colors are weird.

It's a pretty good copy otherwise when it comes to sounds, weaponry, ennemies and so on. Only the blood effect is worth something compared to the original Blood though.
"I'm here to donate some blood...someone else's..." - Caleb
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Alex2501
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Re: Zblood Plus?

Post by Alex2501 » Jul 28th, 2011, 02:49

I should reiterate that I do not believe a Zblood Plus would be a replacement for Blood. In my post I placed an emphasis on fun . Know what I mean? BloodXl will replace Dosbox and make Blood opensource and that's fucking awesome. But that shouldn't hinder people making great tributes to Blood in other engines.

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